Author Topic: Honest Opinions about ST205  (Read 2176 times)

The Chazzman

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Honest Opinions about ST205
« on: April 04, 2015, 01:47:20 PM »
I've been doing A LOT of research and I'm not going to try to start a debate as to whether or not its monetarily feasible or the pros and cons or any of the usual tripe associated with this particular topic, but I feel like I need to complete a bitch of a project at some point in my life and REALLY want to know if anyone here knows anybody who has attempted an ST205 conversion on an ST204. Like I said, I know it will be a nightmare because EVERYTHING would have to be swapped, chopped, welded, etc...I just want to see an actual success story before I attempt to start slowly ordering in parts so I know for sure if I want to tackle this or just daily my 204 and pick up an MA70 to build as a toy. Hell, I might just go insane and try to restore the 204 and build it for show. Aside form saying "Screw it all and get an AE86," I would like to hear other people's opinions on the matter.

EDIT: If I do end up going with the Supra plan, I intend on looking for something pretty much completely stripped. Like I said, I want a beast of a project.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 01:48:56 PM by The Chazzman »

theAngryMarmot

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 01:21:29 AM »
Converting the ST204 to a GT-Four is not easy. Some of the mounting places for the AWD exist - but not all. Couple that with the difficulty in finding All-Trac/GT-Four/AWD Corolla parts and it is pretty much a complete waste of time and money. You would be much better served in just finding and buying a earlier All-Trac (I had a '88 and '93...)

When I had a 96 GT I was heavy into the forums for those cars - and only seen on person complete the conversion. I forget the username and forum - but it was orange. It took dude years and a great many dollars.

Considering you find the models they did sell over here - ST165 & ST185. IMO - the ST185 was the more fun car. I drove them both as i owned them both at the same time.

I Turbo'd my 96 2.2 GT back in the day. A dealer called Burien Toyota sold a Turbo kit that fit the 2.2 MR2s, Camrys, and Celicas. The 5SFE was pretty beastly on low boost. I was impressed (but this was back in the late late 90s / early 2000s.)

I always wished there were more parts available here for the ST204 Celicas. I feel they were an under-rated platform and the 5SFE didn't get all the tinkering it could have because at the time everything was honda-honda-honda-honda. Same thing with the 7th gen Celicas. Fantastic engine, fantastic chassis - just over looked.



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twincharger

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 12:03:06 AM »
According to TRD, the alltrac transmission won't stand up to more than about 300 hp.

That would be a deal-breaker for me.  A long-term project with less than 300 hp? No.

I don't know if it is the same, but isn't the Rav4 a 5SFE engine and AWD?

You could pick up one of those cheaper than finding an alltrac.

What exactly would you want the car to do?  Drag?  roadcourse? Autocross?

You could just turbo the bejeesus out of the Rav4 for fun.

Then swap everything into the celica just to gain less interior room and slightly better cornering.

First of all, decide what you want the car to do, then pick the best car you can afford that already does it well, and improve from there.

Otherwise you end up putting a lot of work  and money into a car that still won't do what you wanted in the first place.

theAngryMarmot

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 01:27:13 AM »
Rav4 never came 5SFE.

However the first gens did come with a 3SFE and a 3SGE overseas. So you still might be onto something.

I made 430+HP with my 93 All-Trac - and with an obviously upgraded clutch it held. That being said I wasn't doing 6k rpm launches and beating the crap out of it either. I have mechanical sympathy.

I still think the cheapest option would be to just buy an All-Trac. They are great cars. Better cars than the ST204.

However, I like your thinking. A 3SGTE swapped 1st gen Rav4 with some coilovers, sways, etc would be pretty freaking awesome.

The road to converting a ST204 to a GT-Four is a long, expensive, arduous one that requires an engine swap, and then a complete driveline swap with some fab work. IMO not worth the trouble. At least with an All-Trac you get something rare, collectable, and will probably increase in value if you don't chop it up.
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The Chazzman

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 03:27:55 PM »
I kinda wanted to build it for rally. Or just racing in general, but since I like the look of he 204 so much, I think I'm actually liking the idea of getting a 185 as mentioned earlier. Didn't actually know the All-Trac was available in the states. So I'll just kit the bajeezus put of the 204 and make it all pretty for show and get an old All-Trac for racing. Problem solved. Mind if I ask why you got rid of your 185? Somebody said something earlier about the 7th Gen. I drove one of those for the better part of a year and had some fun with it, but I don't think it looks or feels as great as my 204.

Also, I've actually considered doing a turbo mod on the 5S. How much did that involve. I've never actually converted N/A to turbo by it crossed my mind several times before I started thinking 3S.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 03:30:55 PM by The Chazzman »

theAngryMarmot

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 06:18:08 PM »
I sold both my All-Tracs to fund another purchase. I regret selling the '88 - it was my favorite.

It was an expensive kit to turbo the 5S - but this was back in the early early 2000s. I paid around 4500 for the complete kit. It was easy, but the issue was no one made stronger axles, clutch selection was limited, as well as any sort of tunable EMS for the platform. In hindsight it would have been better to swap in a 3SGTE honestly.
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The Chazzman

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 07:59:54 PM »
From what I've heard, you can't just swap in the 3S, though. I've read that you would have swap the tranny as well and to do that, there would be welding and twisting and all sorts of problems or that would have been my first thought.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 01:49:11 AM by The Chazzman »

twincharger

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 12:58:32 AM »
There are no rally events here as far as I know.

'Racing in general' is pretty broad, are you sure it is worth the trouble to go AWD?

In autocross or road racing you would be up against other AWD cars… Subarus, Evos and eclipses.

If you stay FWD, you are up against the hondas.

If you like the 204 just for fun, then get some coil overs for it, either a turbo kit or a 3sgte swap and race it.

You may outgrow it eventually, but by then you will know what you want.

The Chazzman

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 01:47:06 AM »
I really like it for the fun factor, but I also really like the way it looks. I really think I want an ST185 now, though. I don't care for its appearance, so I know I wont have anything against abusing it and I can still have all the fun of my 204! It seems weird that there would be no rally in the desert, but autocross could be fun too. And now that I know I can get an All-Trac, I think that is the way I will go. I definitely don't want to be anywhere near, "the Hondas."  :-\
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 01:50:50 AM by The Chazzman »

SidewaysEightSix

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 02:13:15 PM »
There are talley events quite often up in the Prescott area.  A dude showed up to one of our meets in a haggared 2.5rs (actually I think it was just that model base wrx) and he ran talley up north.


I'll repeat advice Twincharger gave me a while back and has stuck with me.   It's far easier to improve a running and driving car, than it is to work religiously on a big project that doesn't give you any satisfaction.


I'd suggest finding a car that is already capable of doing what you want.   Then drive.  Register for events.  Let the car tell you what it needs most/next
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Yes....  You are an expert

The Chazzman

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 04:42:31 PM »
That actually sounds like a plan! Buy a car that A) I would like to drive and B) wouldn't mind beating the bloody piss out of, take it out and find out what I need to do to improve it? I think I can do that! Problem is, the only car I can think of that can be fun to drive without feeling guilt over its abuse would be an S13. No AWD means I would need to stick to tarmac. Obviously, I have never done any actual track racing. Always wanted to but never was able to afford it before, now that I actually have a steady, reliable income I'm ready to try some things out. What options are there? I know there's autocross, drift and drag, but I'm sure there's other stuff. Other than the stupid shit I did on the streets as a kid, my only racing experience is Forza...

Crono0001

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 08:50:11 PM »
We all had to start somewhere in regards to the track.  One of the fastest drivers I know started out tracking a FWD Corolla, and now he chases GTRs in a 90 hp Miata.

If the only thing you think that is fun is an S13, you haven't driven a lot of cars.  There are so many cheap cars that are tons of fun.
Any early Honda Civic, Integra, Miata, any affordable Z, old Corollas, old Celicas, DSMs... and those are just the Japanese cars.

Honest opinion?  Here's a tip I wish I would have taken to heart before I started modding cars.  Just go out and drive.
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The Chazzman

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 11:52:43 PM »
Lol the only thing I think is fun that I wouldn't mind destroying. I think one of my old friends said it best when he said it was the best time he'd had wrapping a car around a tree.

Crono0001

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 08:55:34 AM »
I think your friend gives horrible advice.  Please don't wrap cars around trees.
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twincharger

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Re: Honest Opinions about ST205
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 12:14:50 PM »
Save the trees...