Author Topic: Satan's Chrysler  (Read 1397 times)

The Chazzman

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Satan's Chrysler
« on: April 08, 2015, 04:59:38 PM »
A little over a year ago, I was strapped for cash and had a broken old Chevy with a cracked block. I got rid of it and needed a car. Bad. So, in desperation, I looked to Craigslist and found a 91 Chrysler 5th Ave. for cheap. Not my kind of car at all, but I needed something for A to B. And it worked. Surprisingly well. REAL comfortable too. Anyway I drove the hell out of it for over a year with no problems whatsoever. Then I bought the Celica and put the Chrysler back on Craigslist. Since then, I have had to change the alternator, battery, belt, several hoses, valve cover seals and two tires. After doing all that and finally getting in touch with someone who wanted to buy it (I was actually driving it to meet them), the CEL comes on and, very shortly after, the battery dies. I pull the battery, run it to a charger, run it back to the car and drive to O'Reilly (work there), to plug in the computer and get two different codes, one for vehicle speed sensor (no big deal) and the other involved the alternator field circuit. So, I grabbed a multi meter and tested everything and there are only 2v going into the alternator. I don't know much (or anything, really) about wiring or electrical stuff, but I'm pretty sure it should be getting 12v. Pulled the alt out, which sucks ass on this car due to the worst tensioner positioning ever, and threw it on the bench to test it. It passed everything. So there's a problem somewhere between my battery and alternator and I don't even know where to begin to try to find it. I just need to fix this so I can get it back on CL, and out of my life.

twincharger

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 05:07:39 PM »
You are correct that the field winding needs more than 2 volts. Start with an electrical diagram and trace back from there.

The field winding should be disabled during starting so that it is not dragging on the engine when it is trying to start. Maybe there is a relay to control that and it stopped working?  Just guessing.

The Chazzman

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 06:04:17 PM »
Would this be the correct diagram? If so, I'm following that black wire from the battery to the alt, then the dark blue from the alt to seeming all different directions?



twincharger

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 03:40:27 AM »
Right. the thick black wire goes to the battery, the dk blue wire goes to the ignition switch.

Distance sensor in pin 47?  in 1991?

I hate when black wires go to the + side of the battery...

The black wire should be thick and I'm sure you tested it with a voltmeter where it bolts to the alternator.

It should have exactly the same voltage as the battery as long as the fusible link is good.

What color is the field winding wire on the alternator?  Dark Blue or Dark Green?

The dark blue wire has to work, or the car won't run. It controls power for spark and fuel injectors.

The Dark Green one comes straight from the computer.  I hope that is not the problem...

Make sure your ignition switch is ON when testing field winding voltage.

Looks like the alternator has an internal regulator.

Any brushes in the alternator?  could be wearing out, and decided to work while you were bench testing.

How were you testing the field winding voltage before?




The Chazzman

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 02:14:04 PM »
Thanks a lot for your time. I put a voltmeter on the each of the 5 grounds(?) There's a simi-circle deal with 5 holes that all ground to the alternator itself and we tested all of them and my buddy said the input was only getting 2v. I wish I could be more descriptive, but I really know nothing about electrical systems. When I get home tonight, I can snap a pic of that semi-circle thing I was talking about. Definitely an internal regulator and I'm a little ashamed to admit that I don't know what the field winding wire is.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 07:16:18 PM by The Chazzman »

The Chazzman

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No Turning Back
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 07:36:56 PM »
I've officially lost my mind. The damn thing had oil all over pretty much everything, so I started tearing it apart to replace some gaskets and seals and, after seeing what I've seen, injectors, and since I had to remove the MAF to get the damned manifold off, I was able to get a much better view of the wiring. I'm willing to bet the fact that the black wire that is supposed to be attached to the positive terminal is in fact attached to the negative could be a problem...

Its running from the negative to ground where another black wire is grounded on top of it which runs through the harness to the alternator. Could that be my problem?


Unrelated to the electrical issues; I was kind of appalled to find that pretty much every gasket attached to the intake and EGR was changed...poorly. bits of old gasket were stuck to everything with new gasket just kinda slapped on top and my favorite part? They changed only one valve cover gasket. the other was practically a volcano. Looks like I have a LOT of work to do. I wonder if I shouldn't just squeeze a 7M in this beast. Probably a bad waste of a good engine...but it might solve my electrical problem!

All kidding aside, I've decided I'm actually going to clean everything up, make it look purdy, figure out what the hell is wrong with the wiring and try to sell it for what it's worth to fund the "Chuck Needs a Mk. II" project.


Ugh. Gotta quit for today, but its starting to look a lot less gunky. Thinking about biting the bullet and just replacing that whole chunk of harness. If I can find it anywhere. I'm definitely going to switch out the alternator first and it probably couldn't hurt to change the belt. God, why couldn't this just be a mechanical issue? I want to just relax and play some Forza or something, but I want to get this thing done and outta here ASAP.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 11:10:00 PM by The Chazzman »

twincharger

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2015, 12:49:16 PM »
...Wait..   wut?

From your first post, you drove the car for a year with no problems, then you changed the alternator and the battery, now you have alternator and battery problems.

What made you change the alternator and battery in the first place, and while doing so, did you move a black wire from one side of the battery to the other?

If not, then the wire is in the right place.

Sounds like the original problem that made you replace the alt and batt in the first place was never fixed.

The Chazzman

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Re: Satan's Chrysler
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 04:09:06 PM »
I put the damned car on CL In Feb, like 2 hours before I bought the Celica. I wasn't able to register the Celica immediately because of CEL, so I drove the Chrysler around for a week or so while I took care of it. I had a buyer lined up and the battery died. Changed battery because it was dead, replaced connectors while I was at it because they were horrendous. I changed them one at a time just to be sure I didn't cross anything. After a week or so, I got in to drive to work and it wouldn't start.
Tested the battery, it was defective. Replaced it, about a week later, dead again.
Tested again, passed, replaced alternator.
 A couple weeks later, CEL comes on and I plug in the computer to find what's up.
Error code 41: Alt field control circuit.
Having no idea what that meant, I drove it around for a couple weeks to see what would happen, no drain on the battery gauge but there was a high-pitched whine.
Posted back on CL as-is, someone wanted to buy it, it died on the way.
Pulled the battery, charged it, drove back to store, pulled alt, put on bench, tested good. Then tested the battery connection at the alt and it came up 2v, however connection at battery came up 12v.
So, for whatever reason it seems there is no power going into the alternator.
I'm pretty sure this car just doesn't want to be sold...

EDIT: I'm a complete dumbass. I've spent the last several hours poring over wiring diagrams and comparing to what's under the hood and I must have just gotten lost in all the wiring. The cable I was looking for was black with a gray stripe, I just barely noticed the gray stripe because it almost isn't there anymore and it is definitely coming from the +.

 So now I'm wondering if I need to just replace the part of the harness (alternator harness?) that comes after that fusible link? It looks like it would be really easy to swap out, just need to find one. Have to go to a junk yard this weekend anyway to find a few things that were so old and dry they broke when I breathed on them, maybe I could try yanking a harness from a junked car? I don't know why, but I feel sure this is a wiring problem.

Anyway, what opened my eyes was a diagram that seems to have been made for the electronically ignorant, like myself. Say I give the harness hypothesis a try and I already know my boss will let me swap the alternator for another, then replace the belt just to be sure. If it still isn't working, what could be the problem? I would think all bases are covered there? So many wires...why are there so many wires.







I HATE wires.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 12:23:15 AM by The Chazzman »