Author Topic: 4AFE troubles in AE94  (Read 6890 times)

eightsix

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4AFE troubles in AE94
« on: August 07, 2013, 02:39:47 PM »
I'm running into some troubles with the 4afe in an AE94 as the subject line explains. I'm getting overheating and a weird gurgling sound in the intake.

Over heating - When I put the 4afe back together with a new head gasket/machined head, I replaced all of the hoses, bypassed the heater core/valve, and cleaned up what I could of the hard lines that go under the intake manifold.
  • First test of the car was not so good because it was overheating quickly, but it was simply the fan not being connected...
  • then test two still over heated with a new rad cap. I found a glob of paper product tangled in the thermostat from the block I suppose because I didn't really clean the water ports of that, and did everything else... spark plugs were healthy with no smell of coolant, and still didn't find any leaks:(
  • Test three seemed promising with a new thermostat, flushed system but it still seems like the fan turns on real late... the water boils out when burping it before it even turns on... and if the rad cap is on there is a hissing sound like air was escaping somewhere around the TB but no liquid anywhere... so... wtf... ugh... lol



The radiator is old, but it seems okay honestly... the water pump bearing was great when I checked it out before installing too. So I'm left with looking at the fan temp sensor/relay to see if the late function is allowing over heating, flushing the system again to make sure there's no quick fix stuff from the block clogging the pin hole ports on the head gasket, and rechecking the way I routed everything to the hard lines... or if there's another faulty pieces/leaks I missed before... Hopefully there isn't more paper towels in there too... ugh.......  Any additional ideas or anyone bored later lol?

Gurgling: The gurgling is actually from the Idle Air Control actuator itself and resignates sound into the intake, so I'm trying to determine if I have it misrouted for the same reason I'm iffy on how I setup the cooling lines... *(most of the manuals I could find were for the celicas that is routed differently.) I've also read up on how to clean it, but by chance does anyone know where it should be connected to? does it go to the TB? Manifold? the assembly I have it to underneath the mani where I have it, but maybe a different port? I don't think this would screw with the cooling system... but it would be convenient if the problems were linked lol.




it's going to be obvious and simple ish that I'm just missing... If anyone has some ideas, insight or a link for the 4afe vacuum and coolant lines for a FF AE94, I'd greatly appreciate it, as google searching keeps getting me celica stuff


« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 02:42:33 PM by eightsix »

twincharger

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2013, 12:52:45 AM »
Air bubble trapped in the head.  -can be a bitch.

A few more heat/cool cycles may fix it.

Heat to operating temp or steam, whichever comes first.

Let cool for several hours.

Add coolant.

Repeat.

It takes 4-5 cycles, and then a lot of revving and hard braking to get the air out of my 20v.


eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2013, 03:01:29 AM »
Damn that sucks... there was squeaking even eith tightening all the belts so it sounds like the water pump. I bypassed the fan switch and it still over heated.

Bubble and water pump need to be checked for sure.

Would bypassing the heater core/valve by looping the hoses cause any ptoblems? The hose dips slighly below water line made of metal and they both connect in the same side of the inlet assembly.




twincharger

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 10:13:40 AM »
Take the belt off and spin the water pump.

If it spins smoothly and you can't wobble it up and down, then its fine.

Take your radiator out and run mass amounts of water thru it.

If it is plugged with that leak stop stuff, then that's your problem.

Are you sure no exhaust is escaping thru the cooling system?  just steam from overheating?

eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 01:25:49 PM »
The water pump wasn't sloppy or restrictive before putting it in. It did have a bunch of the stop leak crap around the bearing/fins but it cleaned right off.

I'll flush the radiator again, it's possible that the crap is all stuck in the fins and limiting the flow of water returning to the head. Trying to think of things that would make the fan kick on late so a restriction of flow does seem logical... but there's so many things that can cause that in this system ugh.. lol

I don't believe exhaust is leaking into the cooling system or how it could be... unless i routed a line from the egr stuff incorrect or a bad seal on the head? Honestly, unless it gets something from the valve cover, I don't think there's anything directly from the exhaust that connects on the intake side of the motor where most of the cooling lines are.



twincharger

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 05:45:52 PM »
If there is no steam coming out the exhaust, then the head gasket is ok.

How long does it take to boil over?

How many heat/cool cycles has it gone thru?

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 05:54:06 PM »
Rent a block tester from auto zone, to see if you are getting exhaust gases into you cooling system. Youtube has videos on how to use it if you are unsure what/how to use a block tester.  Good luck.

eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2013, 12:36:51 AM »
If there is no steam coming out the exhaust, then the head gasket is ok.

How long does it take to boil over?

How many heat/cool cycles has it gone thru?

There's no steam or any smoke, and the plugs are fine/don't smell like coolant.

It boils over before the fan even kicks in so that's why I was thinking the switch before I bypassed it to test.

It's boiled about 4 times since the assembly now, and I didn't allow the temp gauge climb too high... trying not to push my luck. It's weird because you can leave the radiator open... let it boil and bubble out and fill fluid right away and within the same amount of time on multiple attempts it boils out again. This really makes me think more of restriction now since the fluid is allowed to settle long enough for it to boil instead of being cooled through the rad. It's an old radiator so I'm just going to replace it and if it continues... I'll try Jim's suggestion and look back at the water pump...

twincharger

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2013, 11:33:44 AM »
Try a few more cycles, letting it cool for a few hours if you can.

Every time it boils, it is getting more air out of the head.

eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I removed the sensor from the bottom of the radiator and it was caked in clay... which I'm assuming was clogging up enough of the fins to heat things up. Swapped in a new radiator and am I'm no longer having cooling issues! Burping went smooth it was a pleasure to drive!

Now I'm on to figuring out the funky vacuum noise and low idle at braking or with the AC on.... I can literally feel the plucking noise the little solenoid at the left end of the intake if I take the hose off and plug it with my finger (in previous picture).

Out of the 4 toyota ACV setups in the engines around the use of this 4afe, I believe I'm dealing with a Duty-Control ACV System:


I think the electric solenoid is faulty, dirty or not hooked up correctly... While the car is on, Chris (no mas) tried fiddling with the IAC adjustment and it went from smooth idle to immediately dying, and he barely turned it. So that along with the weird noise, and poor idle issues at certain events is leading me inspect this system more.

SDSK

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 01:02:32 PM »
This car is turning into a super headache... Hey my phone is off so just e-mail me or catch me on here.

twincharger

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 05:54:36 PM »
That solenoid pulses slowly to let more gulps of air in.  That is how it controls idle.  I have seen one of those before.

What are the symptoms besides a weird noise?

eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2013, 11:18:18 AM »
That solenoid pulses slowly to let more gulps of air in.  That is how it controls idle.  I have seen one of those before.

What are the symptoms besides a weird noise?

The other symptoms are poor idle with the brakes pressed while in drive or with the AC on.

eightsix

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 05:09:47 AM »
Yay progression!

Today I:
- Removed and cleaned out the throttle body/ non-removable idle air control valve and all other connecting components of the system.
- Adjusted idle air screw - It allowed for adjustment this time instead of just killing itself like when Chris(no mas) tried.

The major problems have been resolved; however, the IAC sensor at the end of the intake manifold still makes a weird plucking noise, so I think it might just be bad/sticking beyond just being cleaned.... Or... the part that it connects to is clogged.

No more shakes or trying to die out at a stop with AC on! It runs so freaking smooth...

SDSK

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Re: 4AFE troubles in AE94
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 09:00:26 AM »
That car is basically new under the hood now. With some TRON colors going on though. LoL